Curse

BrotherGilburt · May 21, 2006, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Why nerf it? Vamp Touch, Vamp Bite builds are completely fair and within game limits. There not invincible either.

Brother Gilburt

Terra Xin · May 21, 2006, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Actually, i dont know why people don't call them Vampires... seems like a more legitimate name for them

oh

/notsigned. Though there are no direct counters to the actual skillls other than knockdowns and interrupts, a typical R/N cant defend against magic for beans.

And to the confusion, all skills are skills. Anything that has the word "skill", is a "skill". If it doesnt have "skill" then it is not primarily classed as "skill", but it is still a skill. Note: "Skill" and skill are two different things...^^

Tainek · May 21, 2006, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Diversion+ even the lightest touch of e-denial > touch rangers
Kiting +degen> touch rangers

i dont see anything wrong with them

Gargle Blaster · May 21, 2006, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Wow, yall should chill about the word nerf (perhaps i should have called this a ele/mesmer buff)... Yall have adverse reactions to the word "nerf" I am not suggesting to nerf the build by lowering DPS or by changing any energy managment(Expertise still works with attack skills)... i think its a good build. i am only suggesting to make them attack skills... think about it -- if a blind warrior cant hit you with a hammer why should a necro be able to touch you with less range?

Daxime · May 21, 2006, 06:06 PM // 18:06

I'm not sure why some of you guys say interrupts is a counter to touch rangers. I don't know how many people can consistently interrupt a 3/4 attack speed attack. It's like saying interupts is a counter to Quickshot rangers.

I do like that suggestion actually. after all, it's a lot harder to touch someone with your hand than to swing a 5 foot sword at them. if you're blind, it should be even harder to touch them.

fiery · May 21, 2006, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Got hit by 8 ranger/necros in GVG. All touchers.

lyra_song · May 21, 2006, 06:30 PM // 18:30

The necro's touch skills are not attacks. They are not spells either.

They are simply skills (like Contemplation of Purity)

This means: You cant use evasion, blindness, or spell based interrupts.

Best thing to do: E-denial, Snares, Diversion/Blackout, Massive Degen

They are annoying, very annoying, but they dont deserve a nerf.

Gargle Blaster · May 21, 2006, 07:38 PM // 19:38

lyra,

i understand that they are currently just "skills". What i don't understand is why.

i think if a skill does direct damage to a target it should be considered an attack skill. -as i have said before...

samifly · May 21, 2006, 10:15 PM // 22:15

A attack skill always involves a weapon of some sort...

Mr Slashalot · May 22, 2006, 12:05 AM // 00:05

whats the point in nerfing it, the only thing that will happen is people will move on to the next build and when thats nerf Ect... Ect...

TheLordOfBlah · May 22, 2006, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Extremely EASY to counter. I'm not going into detail as it has been explained above. Leave the skills alone.

TGgold · May 22, 2006, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Ok, there actually is somewhat a reason for this I think.

Does anyone here play anything using the d20 system? When using a touch spell there, it counts as a touch attack: this negates the targets Armor and natural Armor bonus, making it almost impossible to miss at a decent level. Maybe ANET wanted to carry out the whole "it's pretty easy to touch something" as opposed to actually striking them precisely with a weapon. For all we know, R/Ns just lunge around hoping to hit something :P

Terra Xin · May 22, 2006, 12:56 AM // 00:56

No. If you applied blindness to these skills, some idiot is going to come along and try to nerf ele spells, because they can still target players even though they cant see them.

Concept wise? The necromancers touch attacks do not cause physical damage. Vile touch for example can be considered as a skill used by a person with a very poisonous or acidic touch, so much in fact that it causes damage. It's not an attack skill because youre not using your hand to impale your target and cause damage that way.

Perhaps, if you wanted to nerf it, you're better off increasing the activation time more than anything.

makosi · May 22, 2006, 01:24 PM // 13:24

These touches should be all be spells.

kryshnysh · May 22, 2006, 05:03 PM // 17:03

I think Terra Xin (especially on blindness) and TGgold have most of the valid points.

Empathy is meant to deal damage to you if you hit someone with an attack. It doesn't work for spells, it doesn't work for touch skills. The damage from the attack isn't how hard you hit them (or how/where you hit them, etc.) as it would be with an axe, sword, even wand or staff. Instead the damage comes from some sort of energy (or something similar) that is discharged into them. Thus different from an attack, and thus unaffected by empathy, etc.

You can make an argument that they are no worse than a wand/staff/rod and depending on how we view them, we can disagree on that. You can also argue the wand/staff/rod is more susceptible to empathy. Since either way works, I would say go with whether the game mechanic change would be a balancing or unbalancing "nerf." Personally, I can't see how it would be balancing, and I prefer to see them as less physically malicious than any attack, so I can't see empathy working on touch skills.

lyra_song · May 22, 2006, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

These touches should be all be spells.

Plague Touch, Vampiric Bite, Vampiric Touch, Shock, Lightning Touch, Holy Strike, Vile Touch, Palm Strike, Iron Palm

I think that all the offensive touch skills are skills for a simple reason.

Touching requires you to be in melee range. This is a very big weakness.

Jiao Yang · May 22, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Touch ranger teams are easy to beat.. there is no reason to nerf them. Like IWAY, the only thing they are good for is clearing out the bad teams- most wont get to halls or any other top map without a skip.

BahamutKaiser · May 23, 2006, 02:21 AM // 02:21

This is a necro skill, and wile it can be used and perhaps abused by classes with decent melee capabilities, for necromancer, going into melee fray with their given armor and using the lesser energy they have is much more dangerous and less effective then rangers, the last thing they need is for their spell based abilities to be subject to attack weaknesses.

And if they are so strong that you wish for a counter, then use the ones we already have, Backfire, Soul leach, and a multitude of disabling and interrupting skills, this already has a counter acceptable for its class, it doesn't need to be changed in order to suit the effect as a secondary on another class.

Zui · May 23, 2006, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Bahmut, backfire and soul leech only work on "spells". Touch skills are just that, "skills".

However, there is absolutely no reason to nerf touch rangers. They might own in RA, but that's about it. In TA/HA/GvG you rarely see them, and when you do they simply beat the absolutly horrible teams that would have lost regardless of the team they faced. All you really have to do to beat them is attack the same target, and have the person who they're on kite. Two purely tactical counters, that you should actualy be doing anyway if you deserve to win. In addition to that you have diversion(and can manage to get a skill they're madly spamming...), energy denial... All of which totaly can shut touch rangers down, even more so than just kiting them. Then you have snares... Which makes kiting them even easier, and can reduce thier damage output/self healing to nothing.

Let's face it, touch rangers are plain bad. They're in the same general group as "IWAY", "FLAREWAY", and "VIMWAY." Beating bad teams, and beating them hard and fast. I wonder when someone will make a gimmick HA build with them and call it "TOUCHWAY"...

Iraqalypse Now · May 23, 2006, 06:03 AM // 06:03

heres an idea of how to beat a touch ranger: sic two touch rangers on him.